BONUS - "The Verdict" (1982) with Laramy Wells from "Moving Panels" Podcast

Attendees: Laramy Wells ("Moving Panels"), Timothy Williams

This transcript of the full unedited recording was computer generated and might contain errors. 

Timothy Williams: This Oscar nominated 80s flick may sound just like any other courtroom drama Frank Galvin is a washed up ambulance chasing attorney battling his demons in Boston when he takes on a seemingly straightforward medical malpractice case involving a comatose woman Galvin discovers a Labyrinth of corruption and deceit within the legal system with the odd stacked against him and his own personal struggles looming large Galvin and Barks on a quest for Redemption determined to uncover the truth and deliver justice as the trial unfolds tensions rise alliances are tested and the line between right and wrong becomes increasingly blurred. Although it might have been one of those movies our dads watched on cable while we sat around bored out of our minds the film still holds up. even after 40 years so dust off your law books grab your Polaroid camera and meet us in the courtroom as Laramie Williams and I discuss the verdict from 1982 on this special bonus episode of the 80s flick flashback podcast.

Timothy Williams: Welcome in everyone. Thank you again for being here for this bonus episode of kind of come back to our forgotten 80s flicks series that I started last year want to do some this year. And this is one that me and Laramie one kind of want to do for a while. And so as I said his name, let's go ahead and introduce him from moving panels podcast a long time host the one with the most host appearances as we learned a couple months ago.

Moving Panels: You still crazy?

Timothy Williams: It's Laramie Wells.

Moving Panels: That is so crazy. this is not a forgotten one for me though.

Timothy Williams: you Were yeah.

Moving Panels: I am gonna I love this movie.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. it's a good one and we'll get into it. But yeah, I don't hear people talk about it that much even though it's highly regarded as one of the best courtroom drama movies right up there with a Few Good Men and there was another one listed. I can't think of To Kill a Mockingbird, which I know was a book as well as a play.

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: I'm and I mean a movie Anna play. But yeah, so when did you see the verdict for the first time?

Moving Panels: It was in college. I can't remember exactly…

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Moving Panels: but it was in college so early 2000s. if this was when I decided as I was starting my movie collection that I was gonna pick an actor that I really liked and tried to own everything that that actor had done and…

Timothy Williams: right right who was in this movie?

Moving Panels: that I turned out to be Bruce Willis.

Moving Panels: Yes, who I guess we go and give that little bit of trivia. This was before he was famous. Bruce Willis is just a extra sitting in the courtroom at the end of the movie.

Timothy Williams: mmm

Moving Panels: and it makes himself very well known because he's sitting there with his arms up on The bench like you can't miss him if you're looking for them.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, and he's grinning pretty big too right in the scene.

Moving Panels: Yeah. and…

Timothy Williams: Yeah. those little smirk

Moving Panels: So I was able to get a hold of this one on DVD. and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: that was how I first saw it.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I look to see if there was a Blu-ray copy. I think there's some International copies, but there's not like a American printing of the Blu-ray that I've seen but a lot of DVDs special editions. So I watched this for the first time this week. So this is one that I remember being.

Moving Panels: Wow.

Timothy Williams: heavily advertised on cable when I was a kid when I 80 I guess and

Timothy Williams: 82 83 when it come out 82 I just read it. yeah 82 so an 83 when it came debuted on cable. They were running a pretty heavily course. It was Oscar nominated you did well at the box office, because those wasn't allowed to see it and I remember and I don't know why this makes me laugh or why this is a memory I have but I remember some friends of my parents were talking about it. it was a really good movie and tell them my parents they should watch it and we're concerned about the language and they were most movies it's kind of bad in the first 10 or 15 minutes, but then after that, it's not really there that much and so that's always kind of stuck in my head. So now I watched it the other day. I was like the language really isn't that bad and…

Moving Panels: it's not. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: there's a few, they're the beginning with Jack Warden, but it's compared to our rate of movies today. it could be close to 13 probably all right time out. They're coming in.

Timothy Williams: Hey guys, we're recording. So just I said eight o'clock. again, we're trying to get it done. Can't take much energy yet. I'll continue showers. I'm not gonna hear that. Okay. We're all gonna record one tonight. So

00:05:00

Timothy Williams: alright So yes, that's so I had not watched it until this week is one that I've wanted to watch. I know we talked about it. When I started doing the Forgotten 80's flicks. This is one of the first ones that I kind of thought of because I was thinking about movies that were on cable when I was a kid that people don't really talk that much about I remember this one. Like I said being heavily advertised on HBO that I never actually really got to see and as I started watching it I was like, maybe I have seen this before so maybe I'd started it at some point but I didn't remember anything like after the first five or ten minutes of the movie, so maybe Saw the beginning as a kid or it started it when I got a little older but never really really watched it. So.

Moving Panels: Yeah, the beginning would not hook you so I don't blame that at all.

Timothy Williams: No, yeah, how long they've been since you rewatched it for the podcast?

Moving Panels: It's I would say 10 or 12 years. I probably rewatched it. Yeah, it's probably about 10 or 12 years. So it's been a minute.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, it's definitely rewatchable. I'll definitely watch it again,…

Moving Panels: yeah, yeah.

Timothy Williams: but It's not one that I'm gonna want to watch every year but it's a Few Good Men. I love courtroom dramas. I just want my favorite genres. So 12 Angry Men A Few Good Men, movies with men in this. I don't know Runaway Jury, the.

Moving Panels: 12 Angry Men. Yeah

Timothy Williams: So I enjoy those type of movies so it would be one. I'm kind of in that mood for a good courtroom drama. This is definitely one that I want to watch again.

Moving Panels: Yeah, it's not really one that you're like. You're constantly thinking. I got to see that again or…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: and it's not one that you feel like a rewatch. You're going to see something you hadn't seen before. I mean,…

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Moving Panels: this is a pretty straightforward story like there.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: Really there's only one twist and I honestly think you can Telegraph that one. from the beginning

Timothy Williams: as I say this one doesn't have that Thriller aspect of it where you're trying to solve a mystery or there's this Race Against Time kind of a plot point,…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: but it definitely

Timothy Williams: it's a straight-up drama and it's really more of a character study kind of wrapped around a law case or…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: a lawyer, courtroom case, but it's really a story about Frank and his kind of overcoming his demons or overcoming his shortcomings that he's kind of let him get to where he is, so

Moving Panels: And overcoming corruption really.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. Yeah for sure. So let's jump into story origin of pre-production. we get started in it. And so let's see. The movie titled after the novel of the same name by Barry Reed was released approximately two years after the book was first published in 1980. The novel was the first of Reed's has been translated into many languages the film rights to the novel were purchased by Richard zanic and David Brown a number of actors including Roy Scheider William Holden Frank, Sinatra, Cary Grant and Dustin Hoffman showed interest in lead role due to its strength. Arthur Hiller was initially appointed to direct the movie while David Mamet was hired to write the screenplay. Is it Mamet Irma? Do you know? Okay, that's okay though.

Moving Panels: I think it's Mamet.

Timothy Williams: Mamet had already made a name from self-in theater. He was still new to screenwriting The Producers were uncertain if Amendment would accept the jobs since he said high standards in his previous work.

Timothy Williams: However, according to Lindsay Crouse who was then married to Mamet. The film was a significant opportunity for him Krauss. Also remember struggling initially with galvin's closing summation, but he finally came up with the scene after working on an all night. So Mamet wrote an original draft of the film which ended after the jury left the courtroom for deliberations this left the case unresolved and both zanic and brown believed this would not work for the film zanic met with Mammoth. to convince him to rewrite the ending. However, Mamet was not convinced until Xanax that the ending he wanted was old-fashioned and would hurt the film Xanax use of sarcasm to make his point did not go down. with Mammoth either Xanax claimed his copy of the script was missing its final Pages before telling Mamet the film title would need a question mark after it like the verdict what is the verdict?

Moving Panels: new the verdict

00:10:00

Timothy Williams: So Hiller dislike mimitz script and left the project The Producers then commissioned another screenplay from Jack Preston Allen, which they preferred. However, Robert referred obtained a copy of the script from Alan and suggested James Bridges as a writer director Bridges wrote several drafts of the screenplay and sanitized League character as he was concerned about playing a hard drinking womanizer. However, neither The Producers were Redford were happy with the rewrites and soon Bridges left the project red for then began having meetings with Sydney Pollock without telling the producers which irritated them. So they fired Redford the story the story of this movie is actually a little bit more riveting than the case itself in the movie,…

Moving Panels: Okay.

Timothy Williams: but still good. So then zanic and brown hired Cindy lamet to direct the mentor the May.

Moving Panels: That one I'm not sure.

Timothy Williams: We'll stick with lament Mamet and lament so they hired Cinema to direct the film and sent him various versions of the script after multiple rewrites lamet felt that the story was losing its original rawness and opted for mammits original script. This decision was supported by Paul Newman who also agreed to star in the film lemet had to only rework one or two scenes to give the trial at resolution, which was originally requested by zenic and brown unlike zanic lamet approached Mamet and received his approval to make that change was original work. what a story. It was a lot…

Moving Panels: There you go.

Timothy Williams: but it was kind of cool to kind of hear how that came about. But yeah, it would have been a very different movie if there was no verdict at the end like it that would have been.

Moving Panels: Yeah, it's crazy that you would call a story The Verdict and then not have a verdict.

Timothy Williams: right, which then makes me wonder does the book in that way and probably not I would think that the book would have a clear ending or could you get away with that in a book? Yeah.

Moving Panels: I don't know you've had me on things before they're based on books.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: I be very interested to read the book. I just couldn't find it.

Timothy Williams: Didn't know yet. Yeah, we started there before he recorded that Laramie didn't realize it was based on a novel and so before we started recording But he couldn't find the book anyway, which 1980. I'm sure it's out of print probably had to find how to print copies Yeah,…

Moving Panels: yeah. No, I did find a copy on eBay, but it was a hundred bucks.

Timothy Williams: I'm sure. So let's talk a little bit about the director the Met started his career in theater before transitioning to film where he gained a reputation for making realistic and gritty New York dramas, which focused on the working class tackled social and justices and often questioned Authority. He was nominated five times for Academy Awards for best director for 12 Angry Men in 1957.

Moving Panels: another great one

Timothy Williams: One of all time favorite movies. Yep, Dog Day Afternoon and 75 Network and 76 and the verdict in 1982 one for best adapted screenplay for Prince of the City in 81 other films include A View From the bridge in 62 Long days journey into 1962 the pawnbroker in 64 fail safe and 64 Serpico and…

Moving Panels: another good one

Timothy Williams: 73 murder on the Orient Express and 74 The Wiz and 78 didn't know that was part of his filmography.

Moving Panels: That's crazy that he did that one.

Timothy Williams: The morning after an 86 running on empty and 88 and before the devil knows you're dead in 2007. He received the he received the academy honorary award in 2004. so Yeah, I didn't know until I was doing the research that he did twelve angry men as well. So the courtroom obviously is

Moving Panels: Yeah, I knew he did 12 Angry Men because that's another one of my favorite song My courtroom dramas and…

Timothy Williams: mmm

Moving Panels: I knew he did fail safe because that's another one that I just love.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: Yeah, there's a lot of those that you just mentioned. I was like I have never heard of that so.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, there's some of those, view from the bridge. I think Long days journey tonight. Is that a Beatles movie was that one of theirs?

Moving Panels: No, no there's A Hard Day's Night. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: No It's A Hard Day's. How it is. Okay. Yeah, the Palm broker don't know Serpico and those Al Pacino murder on the Orient Express. But yeah good I mean obviously it's evident in this movie as well. But has a good filmography for sure.

Timothy Williams: All let's jump into casting. There's a few people on here that I'll mention actually got more here than I thought I did. But let's see. we'll go through this pretty quick. I think. So, of course, you've got the legendary Paul Newman as attorney Frank Galvin, this is our first 80s flick we talked about Paul Newman.

Timothy Williams: He won the Academy Award for best actor first performance and The Color of Money in 86. His other Oscar nominative performances were Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and 58 The Hustler and 61 hood and 63 Cool Hand Luke and 67 absence of malice. 91 Nobody's Fool The Road to Perdition in 2002 forgot. He was in that he also starred in such films as Harper in 66 Butch Cassidy in the Sundance Kid in 69 the sting and 73 the Towering Inferno and 74 Slap Shot in 77 Ford Apache the Bronx 81. He also voiced got cutson and cars in 2006.

00:15:00

Moving Panels: 

Timothy Williams: I have not seen a lot of Paul Newman movies if I can be honest, so I don't have much to base this on but I know A lot of the things that I read about it talked about how this was one of the first roles that he took.

Timothy Williams: Where he was playing someone someone older kind of passed their Prime kind of a role. So it was very very different than…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: what was expected. Or what are his previous works for sure.

Moving Panels: because he had always it's not that he wasn't a leading man here, but kind of that,…

Timothy Williams: Right,…

Moving Panels: debonair. leading man the yeah.

Timothy Williams: right. the typical leading Suave and Debonair. Yeah. Any other Paul Newman movies you've seen that you would recommend?

Moving Panels: So this is a crazy one. It's a Coen Brothers movie called the hudsucker proxy. Yeah with Tim Robbins…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I've heard of that one. Don't think I've ever seen it. But yeah. m-hmm.

Moving Panels: where it's a fictionalized story of the guy who came up with the hula hoop. yeah, and…

Timothy Williams: Okay, okay.

Moving Panels: he plays the boss of the guy that runs the company so that's one and then Another kind of Forgotten movie, but this one was from the 90s which funny enough is also got Bruce Willis in it, but he did a movie called Nobody's Fool.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: With Bruce Willis, that's actually a pretty good one.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, 1994 that was on the list. Yeah.

Moving Panels: Yeah. Yeah, I admit you talking about not seeing.

Moving Panels: Paul Newman movies. I've actually never seen The Color of Money.

Timothy Williams: So I just watched that for the first time last year of the year before and he's good in that too. that was a good movie better than I thought it was gonna be…

Moving Panels: yeah.

Timothy Williams: but yeah, I think I've got Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid and the sting on my list of older movies to watch because they're ones that I haven't seen before so

Moving Panels: Yeah, but I had seen Butch Cassidy I had seen slap shot.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I mentioned that one. Yeah 74.

Moving Panels: I seen that one. Of course. I've seen Road to Perdition. We've covered it on my podcast because it is based on a comic book.

Timothy Williams: All right. Yeah.

Moving Panels: But yeah. that's a I think you named the other ones. I've seen them.

Timothy Williams: I'm moving right along. We got Charlotte rampling as Laura Fisher his love interest in the movie. She was an icon of The Swinging 60. She began her career as a model. She was cast in the role of Meredith in 1966 film Georgie girl, which starred Lynn Redgrave she soon began making French and Italian Art House films. She went on to star in many European English language films including Stardust Memories in 1980 Long Live Life in 84 the wings of the dove in 97 in the 2000. She became the Muse of French director of Francois ozone appearing in several of his films notably swimming pool in 2003 and young and beautiful and 2013 on television. She is known for her role as Dr. Evelyn Vogel and Dexter it started in 2013.

Moving Panels: Which would be the only other thing that I recognized her from?

Timothy Williams: Yes, she looked familiar to me but I couldn't Place her like I'd say maybe she just looks familiar or looks like other characters another movies, but I didn't recognize her. I knew she was definitely European like she did have a little bit of an accent.

Moving Panels: Yeah, you can tell the accent.

Timothy Williams: So yeah, so that's like maybe she just looks that familiar like that.

Moving Panels: No, no offense to her. But I think she was the weakest part of the movie.

Timothy Williams: No, no.

Moving Panels: in my personal opinion

Timothy Williams: Yeah, and I felt like her story need a little bit more to it. of course, the big group, kind of which is that one of the twists. I guess you would find out that she was hired by the other firm to

Moving Panels: Which as I said earlier I think is pretty much you can kind of figure that one out.

Timothy Williams: see that coming. Yeah. one of the many tropes of the courtroom movies

Moving Panels: Yeah, you can kind of see that one coming.

Timothy Williams: But yeah, but I felt like at first it was just like okay, they've got to have some kind of romantic element for the story. So that's why she's there and then as it goes like …

00:20:00

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: it's more than that and then said, but I don't think she was given that much to do but yeah her performance, isn't that

Moving Panels: Yeah, but even when she is on the screen, she looks like she's a deer in headlights for a lot of it.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: Which I don't know was a character choice because she knows…

Timothy Williams: right

Moving Panels: what she's actually doing and so it gives her a little bit of she looks like she's kind of scared But…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: but yeah, there was just something that just felt about her performance and Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Okay moving right along another one. I guess probably the second most famous person's moving. At least for me was Jack Warden as attorney Mickey Morrissey wardens break through film role was juror number seven a Salesman who wants to Quick decision and a murder case and 12 Angry Men Warden get started many television series over the years such as bus stop The Fugitive.

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: He received us supporting actor in me for his performance as Chicago Bears coach George Halas and the TV movie Brian song and was twice nominated for a star and roll the 1980s comedy drama series crazy like a fox. I remember seeing the commercials for that as a kid, but never watched it. He was nominated for Academy Awards as best supporting actor first performances in shampoo and Heaven Can Wait. He also had notable roles in The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing never seen that?

Timothy Williams: All the President's Men and…

Moving Panels: No.

Timothy Williams: justice for all used cars in which he played dual roles Problem Child and it's sequel as well as while you're sleeping guilty of sin and…

Moving Panels: Hey.

Timothy Williams: the Norm Macdonald comedy Dirty Work. His final film was The Replacements in 2000 with Gene Hackman and Keanu Reeves.

Moving Panels: I didn't realize that was his final film.

Timothy Williams: I didn't realize that either but that's another. guilty pleasure movie of mine replacements It's like all these great actors in this terrible movie, but it's funny. Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: It's not that bad.

Timothy Williams: I watch it the more I find the things that are outrageous about it, but I still watch it every year around football season. then What?

Moving Panels: When I see Jack Warden, I'm definitely twelve angry men The Replacements are definitely Ones that I immediately or…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: not the replacement. Sorry Problem Child.

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Moving Panels: Acts yeah, because he's Big Ben and Problem Child and then you want to talk about forgotten 80s.

Timothy Williams: 

Moving Panels: There was a TV. I don't know if you'd call it a miniseries it aired for two night of a musical version of Alice in Wonderland That starred like everybody famous.

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Moving Panels: at the time And he played the owl in that.

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Moving Panels: And I love that version so much so I can pretty much anyone who was in that movie as soon as if I see them I go they were in Alice in Wonderland. So

Timothy Williams: I'm at this scour the internet to see if I can find that one. Cuz m of course you do.

Moving Panels: I have it on DVD. So yeah.

Timothy Williams: I mean I have no doubt, but for me because we'd have to meet up somewhere to get the DVD copy but not that I haven't borrowed DVDs from you before but

Timothy Williams: Yeah, but for me, I think his most iconic role for me is probably why you're sleeping. I think that's the one that I've probably seen the most that he's in…

Moving Panels: yeah.

Timothy Williams: but his voice is so Undeniable or so as soon as I hear him talking like I know that's who it is. So then we got James Mason as attorney Ed concannon, who is the other attorney? He's up against in the courtroom. He started such films as a star is born in 1954 North by Northwest and 59 Stanley kubricks Lolita and 62 Warren Beatties Heaven Can Wait in 78. He also started a number of successful British and American films from the 50s to early 80s.

Timothy Williams: He was nominated for three Golden Globes and two bafta Awards throughout his career following his death in 1984. His ashes were interred near the tomb of his close friend and fellow English actor, sir, Charlie Chaplin. Yeah, it was a cool little.

Moving Panels: Wow, that's cool.

Timothy Williams: Thing there and he's the one that kind of his voice was seen somewhat familiar. I couldn't say that I knew him for anything else, but he had a presence to his character that I was like I liked him in the role,…

Moving Panels: yeah. No.

Timothy Williams: but I felt like yeah, it's maybe I've seen other people trying to have that Vibrato, or that same?

Moving Panels: Yeah, definitely felt like he was a former stage actor.

00:25:00

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: AI honestly again, you would think was big of a movie guys I am…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: but us yet start you mentioned stars born North by Northwest having can wait. I've actually never seen any of this.

Timothy Williams: Me either.

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Moving Panels: And I know they're big movies like that.

Moving Panels: Yeah, but never seen any of them.

Timothy Williams: Alright, the next one list. We've got playing judge Hoyle Milo O'Shea a name that I did not recognize but definitely recognized him as the actor like I was like, I've seen him in another stuff.

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: So he starred Asian Leopold bloom in Joseph strix, 1967 film version of Ulysses among his other memorable film roles in the 60s where the Wellington fryer Lawrence and Franco's of release Romeo and Juliet and

Moving Panels: That's the controversial one, isn't it?

Timothy Williams: yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Moving Panels: The one that there's still. A lawsuits and what not going on about it? Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Really? I didn't know that. I'm watching that one in high school after read the play.

Moving Panels: In high school. No, I did too. Yeah in ninth grade. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah about the same time and this is the one you probably remember. He's the villainous Dr. Duran Duran who tried to kill Jane Fonda's character by making her die a pleasure and Roger Adams counterculture.

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Classic, Barbarella.

Moving Panels: I will say that's not the first thing to come to mind, but Honestly, the dream team is the first thing to comes to mind.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. wow.

Timothy Williams: Yep, so fun fact in 84 he reprises role as Dr. Duran Duran credit is d Durand, but credit is Dr. Duran Duran without the D for the 1985 Duran concert film Arena since his character inspired the band's name. Which I did not realize that.

Moving Panels: As he's the doctor in the Dream Team.

Moving Panels: Yep. We have covered that one on my show as well.

Timothy Williams: so he was active in American films and television.

Timothy Williams: So we mentioned he was in an episode of the golden girl. We didn't mention but he was an episode of The Golden Girls 97. He also portrayed Chief Justice of the United States Roy Ashland and the TV series The West Wing in 1992. He got started on a season 10 finale of the sitcom cheers and in an episode of Frasier. He played Dr. Schlatter a couple's therapist who cancels the crane councils the crane Brothers together. But yeah, they didn't have him listed as a dream team on here.

Moving Panels: so Does he play the same character in both Frasier and…

Timothy Williams: But yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yes. I think so.

Moving Panels: cheers? Okay.

Timothy Williams: I believe so. I didn't dig that deep in it. but Alright and…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: then a few more we have here people that I thought were worth mentioning

Timothy Williams: Lindsay Crouse says as Caitlin Costello price. She made her Broadway debut in the 1972 Revival of Much Ado About Nothing and appeared in her first film in 1976 All the President's Men for her role in 1984 film places in the heart. She receding Academy Award nomination for best supporting actress father films include Slap Shot in 77. Also with Paul Newman between the lines and 77 Prefontaine and 97 and The Insider in 1999. She also had a leading role in 1987 Film House of games, which was directed by her then husband David.

Moving Panels: Yeah, …

Timothy Williams: Then that's…

Moving Panels: there you go.

Timothy Williams: why she was listed there. and then

Moving Panels: But the victim wasn't she?

Timothy Williams: Was she? I'm trying to remember now.

Moving Panels: as I thought Castello Or no Costello was the nurse?

Timothy Williams: No, She was the nurse. That's it.

Moving Panels: Yeah. Yeah,…

Timothy Williams: Yeah the older nurse,…

Moving Panels: what's the nurse?

Timothy Williams: right? Yeah.

Moving Panels: Okay. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Or the young man, I can't remember Hold on. Yeah. Yes.

Moving Panels: No, no, the younger nurse the one that shows up at the end.

Timothy Williams: That's yeah,…

Moving Panels: Yeah, that was Costello.

Timothy Williams: I was like, yeah, that's right.

Moving Panels: The one that is the surprise witness at the end.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I'm gonna have to start putting pictures next to my people who have because I did this a couple of days ago. We'll put another podcast about a couple I watch the movie a couple days ago and did the research right after it so it will start fresh in my mind. Now that I've watched the totally different moving to research. It's like who's this again? But yeah, All right moving on Edward bins as Bishop Brophy. The only reason I mentioned him is he also was in 12 Angry Men in 1957?

Moving Panels: There you

Timothy Williams: Then we've got Julie bovasso as Maureen Rooney. I think she was the older nurse. Yeah, so she was in.

Moving Panels: She was the older one. Yeah, it's a lot of Irish names and…

Timothy Williams: Yeah. …

Moving Panels: and Yeah.

Timothy Williams: it is So she was in Saturday Night Fever playing the mother of John Travolta's character. She reprised the role for Staying Alive in 83. She was also yeah, I think that's all I'm gonna mention for her. Then we've got Roxanne Hart as Sally dunnegie the victim's sister. She looked familiar to me and I know why now because she was skipping over some stuff. So she played supporting roles and the verdict as well as God you devil in 84? then before she landed the role opposite Christopher, Lambert and Highlander and 86 to find what I remember her most from she also played.

00:30:00

Timothy Williams: Supporting roles and pulse 98 once around 91 and Moonlight Mile in 2002 from 1994 to 1998. She played Nurse Camille shut in the CBS medical drama series Chicago Hope. She was also guest starred on ER Law and Order Criminal Minds Gray's Anatomy the closer. CSI crime scene investigation So she's been in a bunch of stuff.

Moving Panels: I probably seen her in one of those other things.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, one of those two And another person looked familiar was James handy who played her husband Kevin Donaghy? He's been in multiple guest starring roles as feature film and credits include 15 minutes. Jumanji guarding tests The Rocketeer Arachnophobia bird burglar Brighton Beach Memoirs the verdict and canine. That's can't talk. Let's see on television. He's been in episodes of The Young and the Restless Criminal Minds Alias Cold Case The West Wing Third Watch ER Law and Order Murder She Wrote The Pretender Quantum Leap and Castle. He also appeared in 10 episodes of NYPD this is why I had him on here for you in 2017. He appeared in Logan as the old Doctor Who treat a Hugh Jackman after his first fight with x-24.

Moving Panels: Okay. Don't really remember. I mean apparently of all he is is the doctor really was not a major role…

Timothy Williams: Right, not a major role.

Moving Panels: but very nice.

Timothy Williams: And then I had to mention him Joe Seneca as Dr. Thompson The Physician they bring in to be there. They wanted to be their star witness that kind of Gets decimated on the witness stand, but he's best known for playing Willie Brown and…

Moving Panels: mmm

Timothy Williams: Crossroad than 86 opposite Ralph Macchio. He also played

Moving Panels: so not the Britney Spears Maybe.

Timothy Williams: No, he also played Dr. Meadows in the blob in 1988. And he was Dr. Haynes on the TV show The Cosby Show.

Moving Panels: Seen that.

Moving Panels: that's probably…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, so that's probably his most memorable role was being on the cause we show.

Moving Panels: where I recognize them because

Moving Panels: yeah some assuming that was a recurring role.

Timothy Williams: Yes, yeah. Yep.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. The original yeah.

Moving Panels: here to the 58 One but I am a fan of yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yep, and so we already talked about Bruce Willis cameo. There and also Tobin ball. I think I didn't write his name down. He was also.

Moving Panels: Open Bell. And fix all yeah.

Timothy Williams: Tobin Bell from the saw Series, Yeah. So he's also in the courtroom as well as one of the extras.

Moving Panels: Yep. Jigsaw from the saw.

Moving Panels: Yeah, I found that I didn't know that and I haven't identified him in the crowd.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Timothy Williams: Gotcha.

Moving Panels: but definitely like I said, you can definitely identify Bruce Willis sitting there You got to remember. He looks like he does for Moonlighting. So you're not looking for bald Bruce Willis.

Moving Panels: 

Timothy Williams: Mmm Yeah

Moving Panels: Or thin haired Bruce Willis.

Timothy Williams: There you go.

Moving Panels: He's got a good. Yeah, but he's definitely dressed like David Addison from Moonlighting and…

Timothy Williams: Moonlighting

Moving Panels: kind of sitting there with the same attitude as David Addison would

Timothy Williams: Anybody else from the cast that worth mentioning or I think we covered them all.

Moving Panels: I think you covered him.

Timothy Williams: Covered more than we needed.

Moving Panels: I really can't think. Who else there might be because even the other doctor whatever I forgot his name,…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: but the doctor that ends up being the one caught in a lie. I didn't recognize him.

Timothy Williams: No, no, yeah.

Moving Panels: Yeah. or the bishop that Didn't recognize him.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: So yeah, I think you covered everybody that's probably worth mentioning. No offense to the rest of the cast.

Timothy Williams: No, no, of course All right, iconic scenes. I don't know if this one has really an iconic scene that I would say besides him playing pinball at the beginning because that's the scene that I remembered watching it..

Moving Panels: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about iconic because again, this is a forgotten film for a lot of people.

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah,

Moving Panels: It's not one that you're gonna see, a quick clip of you…

Timothy Williams: What right?

Moving Panels: 80s Montage of movies.

Timothy Williams: Montage right

Moving Panels: So, yeah, I agree. There's not really an iconic scene.

Timothy Williams: What about favorite scenes for you?

00:35:00

Moving Panels: 

Timothy Williams: And I'll say up front. I don't really have one. Not that I don't think they're a great scenes. But this isn't that type of movie. I feel like it's telling such a story.

Moving Panels: Yeah, it's this. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: It's a slow paced drama. it's not very nicely flashy or femboy. Let's start with the word. But it's not trying to wow you in any way. It's just really Telling a story it's a very basic.

Moving Panels: Now it is and a very good story.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. yeah, it's just almost 12 Angry Men like That could easily be done on a theater stage. Just being engrossed in the story.

Moving Panels: Which they have turned this into a stage play I did when I was trying to find the book.

Timothy Williams: I'm sure yeah.

Moving Panels: I did discover that. Yeah, I don't know about a favorite scene because again. I wouldn't say there's a scene that when I think of this movie, I'm automatically thinking of a scene I will say that when I think of this movie and…

Timothy Williams: 

Moving Panels: this may sound silly I think of his office. There's something about his office that it's the window. And The View…

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Moving Panels: where there's clearly some sort of arch right outside. That's got this decor.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: there's just something about his office that always sticks into my head with that semicircle, Type window that he has and Yeah, I mean, there's just the window. That's it. I will say I do really like the power of the scene when he goes to visit the victim and…

Timothy Williams: Okay.

Timothy Williams: Yes. Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: he's taking the pictures. And really for there to be Really the most dialogue you get is from the nurse that comes and tells him he can't be there. and…

Timothy Williams: right

Moving Panels: then he just very quietly says I'm her lawyer. but just The acting that Paul Newman does in that scene. Without saying words, …

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: that's really the turning point for him where this turns from a case where he's just trying to make money to a…

Timothy Williams: right

Moving Panels: where he is actually going to fight for…

Timothy Williams: Mm- Yeah,…

Moving Panels: what is right.

Timothy Williams: I thought it was interesting choice too because what actually watched the Polaroids come into Focus. which I know has significance…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: because I know it's talking about it's that turning point for him where things that have been out of focus begin to become into Focus for him or you…

Moving Panels: mmm

Timothy Williams: one person's, commentary on it, but

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: But yeah, like him seeing her through that camera for some reason gives him an epiphany of this needs to be more than just another case. There's a person's life here. That's been lost and will never be the same.

Moving Panels: Yeah, because I mean they clearly make it known, between him and Jack warden's character that the only reason he got.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: This case was to settle it and…

Timothy Williams: right Right, right.

Moving Panels: make a whole bunch of money.

Moving Panels: So yeah for that to happen and him again to risk everything. On this case, and it's a really good performed scene is so I'm not gonna say favorite…

Timothy Williams: Yes, yeah.

Moving Panels: but it's one that when you watch it that scene really sticks out.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, and I will say just Props to Paul Newman. Of course, we know what a great actor is, but this is one of those performances that kind of remind you how great he was in a role and…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: how well he did like, you said, It's not over the top. he's not trying to do too much. It's a lot of subtleties and…

Moving Panels: No. yeah.

Timothy Williams: subtext that you get.

Moving Panels: Even when he gets frustrated which you get frustrated with him in the courtroom, especially with the judge. Who …

Timothy Williams: yes. Yeah.

Moving Panels: and he gets into that. Don't try my case for me and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: All that, I mean, yeah, but again he does it without going too hard at it. Which again it's just Again, a great just indicator of how amazing of an actor Paul Newman was.

Timothy Williams: I agree. Let's hit some scenes or trivia from scenes maybe able to help us think of some other parts the movie that we might have forgotten or haven't talked about yet. to do the Met said that if anyone had ever sent him the book to read before he decided direct the movie, he would have told them there was no way that the material in the book could ever be adapted to film which you and I kind of mentioned before is I don't think the film really follows is a

Timothy Williams: That's a faithful adaptation. But

00:40:00

Timothy Williams: I can't talk tonight. We'll see what that part. but it seems like the book was the movie isn't. a direct adaptation of the book. there's probably elements of the story that make it into the film but with all the different rewrites, it seems like they're not trying to follow the exact same story. Maybe the general idea of the case and maybe Frank his character. but

Moving Panels: Yeah. yeah, I'd like to read the book to see how close they came but yeah, I still amazed but you've even made it more interesting with the fact that there is no decision made at the end of the book I really kind of want to know how that actually reads,…

Timothy Williams: Yeah,…

Moving Panels: .

Timothy Williams: I mean I'm saying I don't know if that's the way it is in the book as I was curious if it is like that's…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: why meth wanted to do it that way if he wanted to keep it that way or that was his choice or yeah, so yeah. Wonder if it's not any of the life if you can find out a library somewhere maybe Or if it's two out of print. I'm just

Moving Panels: I will still be taking a look.

Timothy Williams: Prior to filming the Met held extensive dress rehearsal standard practice for his films but not common in Hollywood Productions. Newman was appreciative is that proved crucial and developing his performance giving the time he needed to tap into the emotional bankruptcy of this character. That was pretty cool. And Frank uses eye drops to hide the redness in his eyes caused by alcoholism. According to the DVD commentary by Sydney lament this was Paul Newman's Own idea. Thought that was good.

Moving Panels: Not very nice good little touch.

Timothy Williams: The Producers were reluctant to keep the scene where Newman strikes rampling believing it would turn the audience against this character and even damages Public Image Newman insisted on keeping it believing it was right for the story. I will say that was a very shocking thing.

Moving Panels: It's a shocking but I agree. I think it's fitting I mean she just about single-handedly ended his career.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: and all the trust he had put into her and yeah, I mean it is shocking to see a man strike a woman but

Moving Panels: I think the scene was handled. it's the confrontation and…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: then the very sudden and dramatic slap and then you do have all the other men. Come to defend her and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: hold all them back. But as much as I talked about how I think she was the weakest point the way that she even without speaking kind of suddenly. Let's even the other patrons know. no, it's okay. I deserved this, you…

Timothy Williams: I know…

Moving Panels: she kind of relays all of that. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: why I did it. Yeah, right.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, good scene. So we'll kind of moving into the end of the movie which I think is what most people remember like that we'll just talk about it. So according to DVD commentary Paul Newman had to perform the summation scene twice due to a hair in the gate of the camera. The Met said it was the only time it is entire career where the second performance and that situation was better than the first and he did that. he did all that in one take he didn't need to be breaking up.

Moving Panels: Yeah. in great actor

Timothy Williams: So that was great a lot of long sequences. I'm not a lot of Camera Cuts like we see in today's movies like a lot of long cuts. The last sequence was not in the script sitting the Met devised the scene with Paul Newman and Charlotte rampling wanting to show the Laura was drinking while Frank was not Newman confirmed that frequent Frank was drinking coffee at the end. This is meant to show that Frank has escaped from his personal hell while Laura has brought herself into one.

Timothy Williams: Frank's refusal to answer Laura's phone call. This is refusal to give in to his old vices.

Moving Panels: Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that ending.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: I get the moment, but I kind of wish there was something else. at the end to just have I think one it goes on just a little too long.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: of just cutting back and forth to her laying in bed calling him up and…

Timothy Williams: 

Moving Panels: then heating at his desk just staring at the phone and it is rings and just rings and Again, I get the scene I get the moment, but just after such a great story. With maybe a little cliche but the triumphant,…

Timothy Williams: right

Moving Panels: little guy wins at the end. I think it took it down a little bit in my opinion.

Timothy Williams: I think that was so they added that because originally The Scene It was supposed to end with just him walking out of the courthouse and it was like a long shot of him coming walking down the street or walking away from the courthouse was originally I was yeah,…

00:45:00

Moving Panels: Probably would have been fine with that though.

Timothy Williams: yeah. Yeah.

Moving Panels: Give him some triumphant music have him come out.

Moving Panels: Maybe have another moment where the sister and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: husband walked by him and he just kind of gives them a little nod. and they walk off and he just kind of looks around, just taking in the moment and then have them start walking and just have the credits roll as we just want watch him walk down the street.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: I think I would have loved that ending.

Timothy Williams: So of course, it's just a story so it's not two things. So it was all right. So let me do this one first. I kind of put these in other order. So as this legal drama features a woman in a permanent vegetative state the picture was made and released hot only heels of the 70s Karen Allen Quinlan legal case, which was fresh in the minds of the public Consciousness and it recently been the subject of the 1977 tele movie in the matter of Karen Ann Quinlan the case involved a brain did patient whose parents objected to keeping her on a respirator. And without hope of recovery doctors refuse to comply due to their fear of the threat of a murder charge at the time of filming the verdict Quinlan had been in this state of limbo for over six years. So there was this very real part of the story that was in the mind of people at that time. But once again, it's just a story case in point both lawyers Galvin and concannon engage in unethical conduct for which both would have been subjected to Department.

Timothy Williams: Galvin received the settlement offer from the Archdiocese and…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: yet he never told his clients about the offer or asked them…

Moving Panels: 

Timothy Williams: if they wanted to accept it that is unethical and prohibited conduct on the part of a lawyer his clients revealed that his opponent concannon told them about the settlement offer when a lawyer knows that a party is represented by counsel the lawyers prohibited from speaking directly with that party in the absence of their orn Concannon also engages in an ethical conduct when he pays Laura to get close to Frank and learned his trial strategy and secrets which he does. That conduct has also expressly prohibited by the lawyers code of professional responsibility.

Moving Panels: Yeah, I'm sure yeah,…

Timothy Williams: No surprise. It's a movie. Yeah.

Moving Panels: I don't know the law clearly. I mean, but I think that's part of the story it…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Moving Panels: because there's also the story of Galvin of Frank that he's coming back from and an incident…

Timothy Williams: Yes, yes,…

Moving Panels: where he was the scapegoat essentially For a law firm and…

Timothy Williams: right. Mm-

Moving Panels: so it's just showing how there's corruption in the system, which just makes it that much better for him to pull off the win at the end. But I also wonder in the real world in the legal World, what you could also have a hold against the judge because that I definitely think that some of the stuff he does.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah. right Yeah.

Moving Panels: He could not have actually gotten away with in an actual court of law.

Timothy Williams: which is why I like how we threatened him in the chambers with I think he said something I'll take this right up To the board or so. I can't remember the exact line, but I know he challenges him on that and…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: saying, if you don't let me try this case then I'm gonna take it to your higher ups. so

Timothy Williams: Final trivia. The movie was nominated for five Academy Awards best supporting actor and best adapted screenplay, but failed to win any Oscars and any category

Moving Panels: I mean, I'm curious to know what beat it out. But I mean I can't say I'm surprised.

Timothy Williams: I think Gandhi won If I remember correctly. I think yeah go back.

Moving Panels: Okay. yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, it was tough year that year. All right box office in critical reception the verdict opened in three theaters on December 10th, 1982 limited release. It debuted at 14 behind Gandhi and Sophie's Choice at 12 and 13 respectively, which also opened to a limited release the other major releases held the top three spots 48 hours. Number three airplane to the sequel was number two and the toy was number one the following week at opened wide and moved up to number eight and eventually moved up to number three where it stayed for the four weeks of January 1983. So it stayed at number three for the whole month of January, which was So definitely Word of Mouth. I'm sure helped it as it stayed in the theater for a good long while

Moving Panels: So I will say I just looked up the Academy Awards from that year.

Timothy Williams: okay. Yes. Yeah

Moving Panels: So pretty much Gandhi beat it out in everything. So God, he beat it for Best Director Ben Kingsley feet Newman for best actor.

00:50:00

Timothy Williams: Mr. for

Moving Panels: But best supporting actor because God he wasn't nominated in that category Lewis Gossett Jr. beat out James Mason yet loose for an officer and…

Timothy Williams: Is there any gentleman yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moving Panels: a gentleman that I'm not against that but just to again throw out. What the Oscars were like then and just so best actor you got Ben Kingsley who won for Gandhi. The other nominees were Dustin Hoffman for Tootsie. Jack Lemmon for missing I will say I've never seen missing.

Timothy Williams: No, yeah.

Moving Panels: But Jack Lemmon, I mean come on Paul Newman, of course for the verdict and Peter O'Toole for my favorite year again, not a movie unfamiliar with…

Timothy Williams: right Mm-hmm.

Moving Panels: but Peter O'Toole again classic supporting actor Louis Gossett Jr. Won Charles Durning for Best Little Whorehouse in Texas one of my favorite roles.

Timothy Williams: right

Moving Panels: John Lithgow for the world according to GARP And yeah,…

Timothy Williams: Wow.

Moving Panels: maybe not one of the greatest Robin Williams movies. But again John Lithgow Legend, of course James Mason for the verdict. And then Robert Preston for Victoria. So yeah,…

Timothy Williams: Okay. Yeah Blake Edwards Movie.

Moving Panels: I mean good grief. Just looking at some of these. I mean Meryl Streep won for best actors for Sophie's Choice.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Moving Panels: Jessica Lange won for supporting for Tootsie So man and then it lost what was the other one that was up for best adapted screenplay? it lost to again that movie missing which again I have never heard of the…

Timothy Williams: Yeah. That's the Forgotten he's flicks list.

Moving Panels: but Yeah, that is a legendary group of people nominated.

Timothy Williams: mmm

Moving Panels: I mean best director Richard Attenborough Wolfgang Peterson Steven Spielberg Sydney Pollock and Sidney Lament. crazy

Timothy Williams: Yeah, hey.

Timothy Williams: tough year

Moving Panels: Eat, ET was also nominated for best picture that year.

Timothy Williams: Wow, I don't think I knew that it was nominated for that.

Moving Panels: ET missing again, whatever this missing movie is apparently It's gotta be good.

Timothy Williams: mmm right

Moving Panels: Yeah ET missing Tootsie and the verdict or the other nominees and again Gandhi one.

Timothy Williams: Yeah back when there was only four or five in that category.

Moving Panels: Yeah, not 10 that they have now or…

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Moving Panels: whatever they've done now.

Timothy Williams: Since we know it was a good movie the critical reception. I have never seen this so far. I'm gonna say it's not out there. But first time for me Rotten Tomatoes 88% on the Tomato Meter and an 88% audience score. So exactly the same between critics and…

Moving Panels: awesome

Timothy Williams: audience and then funny enough when IMDB Seven point seven out of 10 with viewers and a 77 on Metacritic. So whether you're Rotten Tomatoes or…

Moving Panels: Okay.

Timothy Williams: IMDb, it seems like you agree with the Critics on either one. So where our is it?

Moving Panels: Yeah. Yeah. It's a good movie.

Timothy Williams: Was it in the MDB 80s.

Moving Panels: It's in it now.

Timothy Williams: It's in the 80s.

Moving Panels: It's in the 80s for me.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. Yeah.

Moving Panels: It's in the 80s. Yeah, again, it's not a movie that you're going to think about an awful lot. It's not a movie that you're gonna want to rewatch or even ask people like hey, have you ever seen the verdict? You really should see the verdict…

Timothy Williams: right Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: but it is a really good movie. So definitely for me. It's in the 80s.

Timothy Williams: I agree. I don't know if 88 it's not that close tonight because I think we're watchability is definitely rewatchable. Like I said, it's not one that I'm gonna want to watch every year every couple years maybe yeah,…

Moving Panels: You've got to have some time between it,…

Timothy Williams: but Yeah.

Moving Panels: you have to have time to forget some of it.

Timothy Williams: But like I I say amazing Direction great writing amazing performances, especially, Paul Newman, Jack Warden, of course is great. Even the other attorney. We say his name was

Moving Panels: Yeah. James Mason Yeah.

Timothy Williams: James Mason. Yeah, so I Bruce Willis three seconds of screen time.

Moving Panels: that Bruce Willis is great in it and

Timothy Williams: But yeah, but just…

Moving Panels: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: if you're looking for a great movie just to watch as I can acting or directing or writing masterclass. This is that's probably one of those of the top tier dramas that Is really well done. So. And once again loved by critics and…

Moving Panels: yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: audiences alike, which is very rare. as much today as even it was in the early 80s as well.

Moving Panels: I mean again, we may be classifying as a forgotten 80s movie, but if you've never seen it had 100% you should see it.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Moving Panels: Again, it may not go on your list or anything as to best movies, but it is an amazing movie that really deserves a lot more to not be forgotten is…

Timothy Williams: Yes, yeah. I agree.

Moving Panels: what I'll say.

Timothy Williams: All that's gonna do it for this episode. Thank you guys so much for joining. I want to thank Laramie for joining as well. I won't have you promote anything because I don't know when I'll actually drop this maybe in the next couple weeks, but I'm not sure but be sure to follow subscribe rate and review moving panels as well as 80s flick flashback podcast support the show through buy me a coffee calm by a t-shirt or sweatshirt from the website tpublic.com or our website 80s flick flashback.com. Send us an email to info at 80s flick flashback.com. If you enjoy the episode share with someone who loves 80s flicks follow us on social media Facebook Instagram and tiktok. That's it I'm Tim Williams from the 80s flick flashback podcast. Good night. Good people.