#99 - "No Way Out" (1987) with JB Huffman from "Manly Movies" Podcast

Attendees: JB Huffman ("Manly Movies"), Timothy Williams

This transcript of the full unedited recording was computer generated and might contain errors. 

Timothy Williams: This roller coaster ride of Espionage and Intrigue is like a maze. We're secrets are hidden loyalties are deceitful and nothing is quite what it seems but this 80s flick isn't just your run of the mill Thriller. It's a mind-bending carnival ride of suspense a Navy officers clandestine Affair takes a treacherous turn when he becomes a pawn in a high stakes conspiracy within the Pentagon as the plot thickens. He finds himself in a Race Against Time desperately untangling a complex Web of Lies while facing the imminent threat of exposure in danger with unexpected twists the movie kept audiences on the edge of their seats guessing who was playing who until the final

Timothy Williams: guessing who was playing who until the grand finale so travel with us to our nation's capital check your security clearance and be sure to throw away any undeveloped Polaroid negatives as JB Huffman and I discuss no way out from 1987 on this episode of the 80s flick flashback podcast.

Welcome in everybody. Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the 80s flick flashback podcast always a delight to have you here with us and excited about this episode one of my favorite movies. I've Loved this movie for a long time. So I'm glad to have JB Huffman from manly movies back with me to discuss a movie. That is a Twist the attorney good thriller. What do you think?

Manly Movies: Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I'll be honest. It was my first time watching it.

Timothy Williams: I had a feeling I sent you the list and you're like I want to do that when I was like, I wonder if he's actually seen this one before so all right.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: We'll jump right in so this is your first time watching it. So what were your initial thoughts?

Manly Movies: I chose the movie because I'm a lifelong Kevin Costner fan.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. yeah.

Manly Movies: I grew up Field of Dreams is one of the first movies that I really loved as a kid and…

Timothy Williams: right

Manly Movies: my wife is a big Kevin Costner fan and she's also a big Will Patton fan. So I was like as soon as I tell my wife about this she's gonna want to watch it.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: So I figured to be something I could watch with her plus. I'm manly movies This is a political thriller starring it with the military aspect and everything. So this has got to be right at my alley and dude it absolutely was I mean, I love the film Noir field that it had and…

Timothy Williams: Yeah. yeah.

Manly Movies: just exposing all these, secrets and cover-ups and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: Just so good. We can talk about more of it later on. But yeah, my initial reaction was it was very good.

Timothy Williams: All right, cool. Yeah, I'm glad you liked it. No, it'd been very awkward if you had …

Manly Movies: But it was terrible. cool

Timothy Williams: Yeah, so I did not see this from the theater. I think this came on TV and I think I recorded it on TV. And watched it a couple of times but once like you I was a Kevin Costner fan as a kid because this came out. Yeah 87 so He had already done Field of Dreams wasn't done yet. I think Bull Durham, but I hadn't seen that one yet. There was something else that he had been in before this came out that Caught my attention was why I wanted to see it. But they say this is one of the breakout rolls from this was the same year Untouchables came out. Maybe that's what it is because I remember seeing Untouchables.

Timothy Williams: I remember seeing the Untouchables pretty soon after it came out. So this may become all TV a year or two later and that's probably when I recorded and watched it.

Manly Movies: Silverado might have been. Yeah that came out earlier.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I remember Yeah, I saw Silverado but I think I saw that later and…

Manly Movies: okay.

Timothy Williams: Fandango. He did was kind of a lesser I remember seeing that on cable, I think. But yeah, but even the TV version had all the story and the suspense and the twists and turns and stuff. So I really enjoyed it in the course being an army brat anything that's military at DC always kind of gravitational gravitated towards those type of stories, but I this isn't really a who done it but the kind of the backwards part who it is and the great part of the story is the guy who did it is the one in charge of finding out who did it. So it's…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: how he's trying to cover his tracks and expose the one or I guess he wasn't the one Day, but he knows who did it. You know what I'm saying?

00:05:00

Manly Movies: Yeah. yeah.

Timothy Williams: All right, so The question is not apply because you just watched it for the first time. So we'll move on to story origin and pre-production. I'll say this at the outset. There was not a whole lot of information about how this movie was made. So I don't really have much about that. What I can tell you this is the second American Film adaptation of the novel The Big Clock which was written by Kenneth fearing in 1946. So there was a film version of the big clock that came out I think in 48 if I remember correctly. I didn't write it down, but I did pull up the book synopsis because I wanted to see how because obviously it wasn't a political thriller in the 40s. So I'm gonna read the synopsis, which I think If the movie, which of course you're listening episode, I'm sure you do you'll see.

Timothy Williams: or how well you'll see some of the key things that they definitely kept in the story, even they changed a lot of other stuff. So this is the synopsis of the Big Clock the novels Innovative structure is presented from the point of view of seven different characters. Each of the 19 chapters adopts the perspective of a single character The first five chapters are told by George Stroud who works for a New York Magazine publisher Stroud who's the main character in the book is a borderline alcoholic and cereal adulterer his latest affairs with Pauline. Who was the girlfriend of his boss Earl. Janith.

Timothy Williams: After a weekend together in Upstate New York George and Pauline spend a leisurely evening in Manhattan eating dinner at bar hopping and browsing antique stores later George leaves Paulina to Corner near her Manhattan apartment. He watches her approach the entrance and sees Earl his boss emerged from a limousine and into the building with her Earl sees George observing him not but crucially he cannot make him out in the shadows so we can see how that scene is very much from the book. And Pauline's apartment. She and Earl have a violent argument in which he accuses her of being a cheat and a lesbian and I'm like wow in 1946.

Manly Movies: Because there during the Hays code era like crazy.

Timothy Williams: That was a plot line.

Timothy Williams: Right, right. In reply, she suggests that he and his close associate Steve Hagan are a gay couple this enrages Earl and he bludgeons her to death with a crystal decanter and a panic. He goes to Steve's apartment for assistance. Steve immediately begins planting a cover-up and tells Earl he must be prepared to have the man who witnessed him enter the building killed reluctantly Earl and Steve employ all the resources of the publishing firm to find the mysterious witness not realizing he is right under their noses. They put George in charge of the investigation as he is their sharpest editor George sets the investigation in motion, but craftily subverts its chance for success.

Timothy Williams: Despite the roadblocks George puts in the way of the investigation and identifying him as the witness. He comes closer and closer to being found. I love this part. Eventually Witnesses are brought to the publishing houses building because it is said that the sought after individual whose name is still unknown is inside the building the building is searched for by floor and it appears inevitable. The Stroud will be caught but Earl snaps under the pressure and surrendered his company to an unfavorable merger suddenly leaving the company suddenly makes the Manhunt Moot and as quickly terminated without the witnesses seeing George. So a lot of similarities like more than I thought there would be from the book that made into the movie even searching the building four by floor, which is such a great scene in the movie towards the end. so

Manly Movies: Man.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: that's pretty cool.

Manly Movies: Yeah, for I really love. any movies that I've seen from the 40s most of them anyway, and so when I saw that I was like Man,…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: I really need to watch that. So I looked it up and I was like art. I already had it on my watch list, but I started looking. He's got a Moreno so O'Sullivan. Carlos Loudon and Ray Millan Bobby, three pretty big names for the 40s so I was like man I gotta hit this up at some…

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Manly Movies: So I think it'll be Purdue and I'm kind of anxious to see how they spend that plot. Because you can write a book like that,…

Timothy Williams: In the 40s. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Manly Movies: but you couldn't show a movie like that.

Timothy Williams: Right exactly.

Manly Movies: So I'm kind of just see how they did the plot on there. So.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. Yeah, that's why I was I got to share this on the podcast because I wouldn't have thought of that being. A plot points in a major novel in the 40s, but there it is. So I'll talk a little bit about the director Roger Donaldson…

00:10:00

Manly Movies: Yeah,

Timothy Williams: because he wasn't a name that I immediately recognized but then as I was looking at what he had done I was like, yeah. I've seen a lot of his movies. So he is in Australian born New Zealand film director producer and writer. His International break came when producer Dina delaurentis invited him direct the adaptation of mutiny on the Bounty after Lawrence or Arabia director David lean left the project the film which was released as the Bounty starred Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson. Donaldson was nominated for a golden Palm at the 1984 Khan film festival for the film.

Timothy Williams: So I've not seen the movie The Bounty but I know I've seen the trailers for it. So it's like that was actually on my watch list and I think I started it at one point but it's pretty long. I didn't have time to finish it. And so I never got back to it, but he went on to direct many popular and successful films his breakthrough American hit was this movie no way out. He then made cocktail starring Brian Brown and Tom Cruise. It was paying by the critics, but did very well at the box office. The volcano Disaster Movie Dante's Peak starring Pierce Brosnan Linda Hamilton helped restore Donaldson's status after a string of less successful films. He also made 13 days a political thriller who once again starring Kevin Costner adapted from the Kennedy tapes. Which was a detailed account of the Cuban Missile Crisis. He also directed the science fiction movie Species and in 2003 the Al Pacino and Colin Farrell film the recruit, so he's

Timothy Williams: He's done. Thriller seems to be his kind of bread and butter it seems so he knows how to make those type of movies. Have you seen any of those? that I mentioned

Manly Movies: I've seen the recruit.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: And I've seen the bank job with Jason Statham.

Timothy Williams: yeah, Jason stated. Yeah. Yeah, that was honest filmography too. Yeah.

Manly Movies: Never seen species or cocktail of I've wanted to and I've seen Dante's Peak as well.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Manly Movies: I remember I'll actually watch that one in theaters when I was younger.

Timothy Williams: mmm Yeah.

Manly Movies: So I guess 12

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I've seen cocktail seven several times. I think I've seen Dante's Peak. I've seen 13 days. I saw species and I've seen the recruit. So yeah, but there's others in this filmography like you mentioned so I've seen a lot of those it's interesting the screenplay for this movie was originally finished with engines where they got that title from I do not know. But Donaldson thought it was an original script all the way through production. He said I was at a party and ran into Mel Gibson and he said I heard you made the remake of The Big Clock. he didn't even realize that it was a remake of the old movie, but he said everyone told Donaldson you have to have a better title than finished with engines or it'll never go anywhere. And that's very No way out was much Better title. I will say a lot some of the notes that I have.

Timothy Williams: Come from some. I didn't have a copy with the commentary, but they found a site which will be in the show notes where somebody, wrote down different things that they learned from the commentary. So it's where a lot of this is gonna be directly from Donaldson because the commentary was just with him about making the movie and they said even the commentary I think was made in 2015. She said even 20 some years later. He didn't talk a lot during the commentary, but he still had pretty good memory of certain things. So I thought that was pretty cool.

Manly Movies: mmm

Timothy Williams: All right, anything else about reproduction because that's really all I got. They filmed it What around Washington Baltimore the scene where he's on the ship and saves the guy's life that was actually filmed in New Zealand. So they did go over there for that. So.

Manly Movies: I did read that Sean Young had said in interviews that Donaldson made her lift up her shirt and…

Timothy Williams: Yes. Yeah.

Manly Movies: show her. Yeah, but during the auditions like, okay.

Timothy Williams: Wouldn't go over too. these days but he was an international director.

Manly Movies: Not in the me too era.

Timothy Williams: That's probably a little bit more common. in other countries than it was here, but She didn't turn it down though. She still made the movie.

Manly Movies: Not She still yeah for sure.

Timothy Williams: All let's jump into casting. We'll talk. I think I've got another story about her audition coming up as So, of course it stars Kevin Costner as Lieutenant Commander Tom Farrell, I won't go over his history and career because we've covered in our previous episodes Bull Durham Field of Dreams And even The Untouchables. So this is not my first Kevin Costner film but as a fan of his that's probably why but Donaldson has said that Costner reminded him of Steve McQueen and his understated ability to play the Everyman. He said Kevin does a lot with very little and that's very true. Kevin Costner that's been his bread and butter is playing that every man type of character that He doesn't have to. talk a lot he emotes a lot through his body language and his Expressions without

00:15:00

Timothy Williams: Being over the top, you just seems very down to earth most the characters. he played some Wildcats like his character in Bull Durham. It's probably one of the most outrageous and Silverado. He's playing more an outrageous character, but most of the ones that he's most known for her The Untouchables Field of Dreams. the good ones.

Manly Movies: Yeah. I do like that. It seems like there's always an actor in every generation That's his stick is I'm every Jimmy Stewart is one that my mind and…

Timothy Williams: mmm

Timothy Williams: Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Manly Movies: Gary Cooper kind of same era. But I think nowadays you can look at somebody like maybe a Matt Damon who's kind of like that as well.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. Yeah. I was a Tom Hanks, especially in the 90s.

Manly Movies: I'll definitely Tom Hanks for sure.

Timothy Williams: yeah, as I would say I think Kevin Costner and Tom Hanks are kind of Interchangeable in some ways as far as the Everyman rolls that they've done where they've done really well with those roles. But yeah, Matt Damon, kind of Next Generation because of course, he's younger than them. I'm trying to think of anybody else like in the current generation that I would put in that

Timothy Williams: You know what? I think Chris Pratt could be but he likes to be funny so much but I think if he gets older, I think he'll just like Tom Hanks was a comedy actor and he started I think as Chris Pratt matures and gets more mature roles where he's aging. I think he'll be more that every man character.

Manly Movies: can definitely see that for sure.

Timothy Williams: All right, so I'm marking some of these as rumors because I just can't believe that all these people were considered for the role, but I'll read a couple of names Mel. Gibson makes sense Harrison Ford Alec Baldwin Michael Keaton Kurt, Russell Patrick Swayze Dennis Quaid Bruce Willis Richard Gere Michael Bean William Hurt, Tommy Lee Jones, Jeff Bridges, Robin Williams Tom Cruise, Sean Penn and Christopher Lambert were all considered to play Tom Farrell. That's just a lot of people

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Timothy Williams: yeah.

Timothy Williams: mmm

Timothy Williams: Right, right. Yeah, it's like I could see Gibson. Yeah, I think I had to remember 87 so this is around the same time as Lethal Weapon.

Timothy Williams: Alec Baldwin really wasn't on the scene as of yet. He really didn't hit until the 90s. Dennis Quaid he probably could have been that role that's probably it. Tom Cruise a little bit later, maybe he could have done that. But yeah, I think some of this stuff that I find on IMDb. I think the people just let me think of all the actors that were popular and just put it in here see how many people believe it so I can't say that I'm prefacing it now by saying this is a rumor. I have nothing to back it up besides IMDb. We know that that's not always the most accurate Place find your information. So That's my disclaimer.

Timothy Williams: Thank you for listening. All right, so then we got Gene Hackman who was one of my all-time favorite actors playing the Secretary of Defense David I Mean Gene Hackman is acting Legend. I'm actually kind of kicking myself. This is the first movie I've covered. With him in it because the 80s was a good decade for him as well. But he's had a career that spanned more than six decades. He received two bapt awards for Golden Globes The Screen Actors go to war and the His two Academy Award wins including one for best actor for his role role as Jimmy Popeye Doyle and William friedkin's Acclaim through The French Connection in 1971 and the other for best supporting actor for his role as Little Bill Daggett and Clint Eastwood's Western film Unforgiven from 1992.

00:20:00

Timothy Williams: His other Oscar nominated roles were in Bonnie and Clyde in 67. I never sang from my father in 1970 and Mississippi Burning in 1988 another great movie. now

Timothy Williams: Go ahead. Unforgiven

Timothy Williams: mmm

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yes, yeah. Yeah, I've got more of his filmography in the next little section but speaking of Unforgiven. I remember watching Unforgiven. I need to go back and watch it again because I watched it when I would shortly after it came out and it's like I liked it. But I was a big Tombstone person. So it didn't have the same action, it's a much more slower paced, traditional Western but there's one line in that movie that I still think about this day and it's Gene Hackman's line when he said something like Looks like you shaved what happened to your beard It's got tired of tasting soup two days later or something. It's something to that effect on if the line you made a lot better than me, but having a beard as well with you and I do it's like whenever I'm eating soup that line Pops in my head. I'm like, that's true. I'm gonna taste this later. I know I am so

Timothy Williams: Yeah, so Great. I need to go back and watch that one. that's the one that needs to be rewatched because I haven't seen it in a long time.

Timothy Williams: Right, right. Mm-hmm.

Timothy Williams: but he gained further feign first betrayal as Lex Luthor and Superman and 78 and it sequels Superman 2 in 1980 and Superman for the Quest for Peace and 87. He also acted in The Poseidon Adventure in 72 the conversation in 74 Reds and 81 Hoosiers and 86 Get Shorty in Crimson Tide in 95 when I'm all time favorites the bird cage in 96 absolute power 97 and another favorite Enemy of the State in 19 But his filmography is and it's ridiculous like he's done so many great movies.

Timothy Williams: Yes, that's one of my guilty pleasure. I just watched it a couple of weeks ago because I have to watch it every year that I mean, it's ludicrous and it makes no sense. But I think because it's Gene Hackman as the coach.

Manly Movies: right

Timothy Williams: It just adds you have to watch it. I know It's not a great movie. But Keanu Reeves and Gene Hagman and movies like you you have to watch it, but it's definitely so funny. It's still funny.

Manly Movies: It is. Yeah for sure. You want to come out what 99 or…

Timothy Williams: Something like…

Manly Movies: 2000 or…

Timothy Williams: Yeah somewhere around there. Yeah.

Manly Movies: something? Yeah, I mean if Jean Hackman is playing a coach you've got to watch it because I mean, he's the legendary coach from Hoosiers. You have to watch anything like so

Timothy Williams: Exactly. Yeah. He's worried He's Stay it watery. Why are you what? Yep? my goodness. All right. So another rumor so here are the other actors that were rumored to be considered to play the role of David Brice Tommy Lee Jones. I can see John Voight Donald Sutherland Dustin Hoffman James Caan,…

Manly Movies: yeah.

Timothy Williams: Robert Duval James Cromwell Donald Moffitt, Sean Connery and Jason Robards. So yeah, Robert Duvall,…

Manly Movies: So good.

Timothy Williams: probably 87.

Timothy Williams: Cromwell Donald Moffitt,…

Manly Movies: I was gonna say I covered Unforgiven.

Timothy Williams: maybe Sean Connery would have been interesting, but I know…

Manly Movies: That is my most popular episode and…

Timothy Williams: because he did. Think about him and Hunt for Red October.

Manly Movies: that performance in that movie hands down best Gene happy performance ever,…

Timothy Williams: It's almost too. Just to military type movies, of course, not the same character,…

Manly Movies: but one that wasn't mentioned that actually came out the year before this was Hoosiers and…

Timothy Williams: but just seems weird. Yeah, but I thought go ahead.

Manly Movies: that's what I will always remember him for now I was just going to say the one that strikes me in that is John Voight like I could see him playing that kind of a character…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah. mmm

Manly Movies: because he plays butthole and a lot of movies.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Manly Movies: but at that point in his career, I don't think he would have been involved in any kind of sex scandal like I mean his humble beginnings.

Timothy Williams: True. Yeah. yeah.

Manly Movies: I mean, he was a male a hooker in the movie of Midnight Cowboy, but I think in 87,…

Timothy Williams: Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: I don't think he would have ever even considered that role just

Timothy Williams: I don't think he was old enough to be we were consider that role to be not that. Hagman is that old…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: but there's still a age difference between Hackman and void for sure. But yeah.

00:25:00

Manly Movies: Yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I forgot about…

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: what we did runaway train last year.

Manly Movies: That's right. Mm-…

Timothy Williams: Good old John Voight movie.

Manly Movies: Mm- which you don't put yeah, but who was a Tommy Lee Jones? Yeah, I could definitely see that for It's a good one, man. I mean,…

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: interesting bring up Timothy Jones.

Manly Movies: for Yeah. it's a Oscar winner for a reason why it's definitely so many good nuggets in that movie Man.

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: So Kevin Costner and Gene Hagman were later considered for the lead roles in the fugitive in 1993. But the roles went to Harrison Ford and Timothy Jones instead. I could see that that would have been a cool teaming of them in I love The Fugitive Harrison Ford atomically Jones are fantastic, but I just think that that's an interesting, alternate universe. Movie, that'd be cool.

Timothy Williams: All right, then next on list. We got Sean Young as Susan Atwell Young's early roles included the independent romance, Jane Austen in Manhattan in 1980 in the comedy stripes in 1981 with Bill Murray, of course Stripes being a commercial success,…

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: but her breakthrough role. Was that a Rachel in the Sci-Fi Blade Runner in 1982.

Manly Movies: what was The Replacements All…

Timothy Williams: She then portrayed the character of Shani in the sci-fi movie Dune and…

Manly Movies: Man, I love that so much.

Timothy Williams: She also was in Wall Street and 87 and had starring roles in the comedies fatal Instinct in 93. And Ace Ventura Pet Detective 1994. Finkel is fine.

Manly Movies: lieutenant, ironhorn I ordered the man.

Timothy Williams: Yeah Finkle is Einhorn. Yeah.

Manly Movies: Man.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, if ever did a 90s podcast that's…

Manly Movies: I was

Timothy Williams: how the list of ones that have to cover.

Manly Movies: I was thinking when we were watching that movie I was like, what is this woman from? I? And I knew I've seen some of the other movies that she was in Blade Runner and…

Timothy Williams: Mm- Yeah.

Manly Movies: stuff like that. But I was like, there's something newer that I've seen her in and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: it was and finally it dawned on me. I didn't have to look it up. I'm always proud when I don't have to look it up.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I know.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, exactly.

Manly Movies: I was like,…

Manly Movies: that's Lieutenant Einhorn from a century.

Manly Movies: so good.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I Timothy I get her and Deborah Winger mixed up a lot. And I think that was a thing even during that time in they were two actresses that. Tend to do the same type of movies and had a similar look. yeah, how I remember when I started not put the movie on the day I was okay. Is this Sean Young or is this Deborah Winger? I couldn't remember which actress it was and then when she popped up I was like, yeah, I can't remember. So the rumor on this one was Michelle Pfeiffer turned down the role of Susan Atwell and Priscilla Presley. Auditioned hard or she really wanted the role but I don't see personal Presley in that role at all. Michelle Pfeiffer would have been interesting but I think Yeah,…

Manly Movies: seems

Timothy Williams: I think Sean Young was good in the role.

Manly Movies: Yeah, and I don't think really Michelle Pfeiffer had really done most at that point if I'm not mistaken.

Timothy Williams: In 87, she had done Scarface. So that would have been kind of her breakout role at that point.

Manly Movies: That's true.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, she kind of became bigger later in the 80s Batman Returns. Of course Tequila Sunrise The Fabulous Baker Boys.

Manly Movies: 92

Timothy Williams: I think was where that was.

Manly Movies: Yeah. that thinks the early 90s was really where she kind of peaked and

Manly Movies: I mean, my first memory of her is Batman Forever. I mean, come on like it's just that woman.

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: She's goodness.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: When you're five years. I was a five when I watched it. I was probably a little older than that when I watched it, but yeah,…

Timothy Williams: right

Manly Movies: she was hot stuff back in the Let's say five.

Timothy Williams: if you Write right,…

Manly Movies: I think I would have been seven when it came out 1992. So yeah.

Timothy Williams: but if you listen to our Batman episode that me and Laramie and Ron I think was last year two years ago. Sean Young was originally cast in Batman 89 and had to be recast by Kim Basinger because she fell off a horse during a testing scene, but then she wanted to come back and play like she was up for the running to play Catwoman in Batman Returns and even went on Oprah dressed in the Catwoman outfit to try to The Producers to cast her and they're like no we've already asked Michelle Phifer you can't have the role so

Manly Movies: And I fall off a horse. Yes, I can and…

Timothy Williams: right right

Manly Movies: yes I have. it's

Timothy Williams: so this was the story that Sam Donaldson said about her audition. He said she arrived at a casting session in New York City and promptly told us she hadn't memorized any of the dialogue. He said she had a lot of attitude. She instead pointed out that she had written a page from the character's diary and offered to read that. He said It was just salacious gossip that she had written down and it immediately peaked my interest. He asked her back the next day with some proper dialogue prepared. So she intrigued him With her weird, I guess she kind of got into the character without reading the dialogue and said this is the kind of character. I wanted to be and that intrigued him with that so she is an interesting character and we won't get into the whole, idea of Mistresses and stuff of that nature, but she's an interesting character for sure.

00:30:00

Manly Movies: Yeah, and you can kind of see where. Someone like that that character would feel. she's important because she's in a relationship with a senator and…

Timothy Williams: right

Manly Movies: and kind of gotta be manipulated into thinking that he's gonna leave his wife or some one of these days. And then when this other guy arrives you can kind of see where she's Okay I'm actually in love with someone and…

Timothy Williams: Right, it's different. Yeah.

Manly Movies: I don't know I kind of have some empathy for her and…

Timothy Williams: mmm …

Manly Movies: her character in that film so

Timothy Williams: Yeah, and it's funny because he made the comment about this he's my boss. He said mine too, but I don't remember her ever saying what her job was or how she worked for him? I don't know if I just missed that little piece of dialogue or if it's not clearly stated what she did for him, but Target …

Manly Movies: probably an intern

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah. you never see her at work so you don't know All So moving right along we got Will Patton which I forget that he's in this movie when he popped up on the screen. I was like, my gosh Will Patton and is like you are not playing coach Bill Yost from the Titans, which this is not the totally different character.

Manly Movies: I'll never look at him the same after watching this movie man.

Timothy Williams: Right, right. yeah.

Manly Movies: Gosh.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, so he played Scott Pritchard The General Counsel to the senator patent portrayed the evil antagonist and Desperately Seeking Susan 85 and had a significant role in no way out which was his first major film. He went on to play the role of General Bethlehem against opposite Kevin Costner in the 1997 movie The Postman of course we mentioned he played coach Bill Yost Remember the Titans from 2000 before a supporting actor performance and Armageddon and 1998 Patton also appeared and Gone in 60 seconds in 2000 The Punisher 2004 and minari 2020 Patton had a guest role in season three and four of Costner's Paramount Network series Yellowstone. But yeah him and…

Manly Movies: The greatest show on television,…

Timothy Williams: yeah Pat and

Manly Movies: by the way.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting when he says Cosmos is not coming back. So we'll see what happens but different podcasts or…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: different discussions for podcasts. But yeah Will Patton is Unforgettable, he's one of those actors like you you instantly recognizable his voice. his demeanor everything but him and Costner obviously, got along very well in making this movie because they've done other films together and I think I've read something where Costner said he was one of his favorite actors to work with and we work with him on any projects. So Good Rapport there between the two of them. But funny thing Donaldson said he cast Will Patton in New York City after attending a play in which Will Patton was starring The Producers had given Donaldson front row seats to ensure he could watch patents performance closely, but he fell asleep.

Timothy Williams: He said I sort of came to and there's will looking down at me and I had no option but to give him the role.

Manly Movies: I mean I get it.

Timothy Williams: But that was great.

Manly Movies: I mean he's a very charismatic actor man.

Timothy Williams: Mmm, yeah.

Manly Movies: I think I kind of discovered him at a pretty good age. I was 15 when remembered the Titans came out and…

Timothy Williams: Mm- Yep. Yep.

Manly Movies: that same year Gone in 60 Seconds came out. And so those two movies I watched those movies about every other year. and my wife loves going to 60 seconds one of the few racing movies that she likes.

Timothy Williams: Yeah,…

Timothy Williams: it's a great cast. It's a fun movie, too. Yeah.

Manly Movies: gosh so good.

Manly Movies: But yeah, so I've always been kind of drawn to him in his roles and anything that he's in I was like, I know the names sound the same but Will Patton and Bill Paxton when they're in the movie.

Timothy Williams: alright

Manly Movies: They always steal the whole that they still ever seen that they're in man.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

00:35:00

Manly Movies: So good.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, good comparison. Yeah, Bill Paxton and him for sure. Once again instantly recognizable playing totally different characters you said,…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: even his role and Gone in 60 Seconds his rolling Remember. The Titans is very different from this so very diverse actor and same with Bill Paxton could play another good every man kind of role when he wanted to play that role, but he could play some funny guys to So remember on this one, so here the actors that were rumored to being consideration for the role of Scott Pritchard Richard Dreyfus, Gary Oldman Stephen Lang Alec Baldwin, Michael Bean James Spader, Brian Brown and John heard. I could see Dreyfus maybe Gary Oldman I could see. Baldwin Maybe

Timothy Williams: Spader would be too easy to he always played a pain in the butt character one of he pulled it off or not.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: But yeah interesting.

Manly Movies: The drive is not been too old though.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, true true. Yeah, yeah,…

Manly Movies: But yeah. they got a ride on this.

Timothy Williams: because no, say you're right…

Manly Movies: I'm sorry, but

Timothy Williams: because him and costume you're like Pritchard and Holland is it Holland? Ferrell, so, Costner and

Timothy Williams: Gosh can't talk today. So yeah, the they went in the academy together. So they've got to be the same age. So definitely Richard Dreyfuss Couldn't play the same age as Kevin Costner for sure. Yeah, some of those probably couldn't maybe Alec Baldwin Michael Bean.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Spader might have been too young. Yeah. So once again somebody just type in names of actors from 87.

Manly Movies: Yeah, I think he was.

Manly Movies: It's yeah.

Timothy Williams: I got a few more here. I'm not gonna mention everybody but these are ones that I wanted to mention so a name that I didn't recognize but the face that I did George zunza as Dr. Sam hesselman the

Timothy Williams: One in the wheelchair. He appeared in several films including the deer hunter white Hunter black heart the butcher's wife Basic Instinct Crimson Tide, which is probably why I remember most from Dangerous Minds and city by the sea. but I recognized him immediately. And he's been in a bunch of movies as well, but there wasn't a whole lot. And his bio about his history, but I love the bumper sticker on the back of his wheelchair. Did you see On the back of his wheelchair says, of course, I'm drunk. I'm no Stunt Driver.

Manly Movies: That's right. I saw that on IMDb that I had said that that's funny.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Manly Movies: I didn't remember him from the deer hunter which it's been a while since I watched them.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, I haven't watched that one yet. I told my list of ones to watch so I started watching it a couple of years ago and I think I got too distracted. I need to be able to sit down and really watch this and not be distracted when it was on so I had to try Another name I didn't recognize but definitely an actor. I've seen a lot Jason Bernard as major Donovan. His first starring role was in the pilot episode of the television series The White Shadow as Jim Willis his other well known television roles in Cagney and Lacey as Inspector Marquette from 1882 to 83. He had a recurring role in the first season of Night Court as judge Stones arrogant rival judge, Willard.

Timothy Williams: His first role in a future film was a cameo in Charles Bronson's film Death Wish in his first major role was in the 1974 movie thomasene and bushrod he later appeared in car wash war games while you were sleeping and blue thunder. His final appearance was the 1997 film Liar as judge Marshall Stevens, which is probably one of the roles that I'm most remember him from another. the president Jim Carrey episode. We've had ice Ventura and Liar mentioned already. yeah.

Manly Movies: That's my all-time favorite Jim Carrey movie too.

Timothy Williams: with one Liar Liar

Manly Movies: I watch it about every year so it's so good so funny love it.

Timothy Williams: yeah. yeah, but he's one those, just another. Kind of every day every man type of character, but always good in his roles. He was good in this to I'll mention Iman as Nina Becca Susan's friend. Of course. She was a Somali American model and actress. She was amused for designers Giovanni Versace Calvin Klein Donna Karen. And she was married to rock musician David Bowie from 1992 until he died in 2016 when she popped up on the movie. I couldn't think of her name but I remembered her being a model at that time and it says she was a model and actress but I really couldn't find anything else and Her IMDb where she starred or acted as much other than this and then another one that I see in a bunch of movies is Fred Dalton Thompson as CIA director Marshall.

00:40:00

Timothy Williams: Of course, he was American politician attorney lobbyist calmness actor and radio personality as an actor. He appeared in several movies and television shows including Matlock the hunt for October Die Hard 2, which I just watched a last month and the line of fire Days of Thunder another favorite of mine and Cape Fear he frequently portrayed governmental authority figures and military men, but

Manly Movies: I remember watching that with my wife and I paused it when Fred Thompson was on the screen I said hey, who that is is she's like I think I've seen him and stuff. I know but you've seen him in other things too. Have you think about 2008 just I don't know. It's like he ran for president. Yes, John McCain the Republican front.

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: I think he actually ran four years earlier than that too. He's done a couple times.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, but I think the furthest he win was 2008 because there was a big blurb about that and they said that even when he had one of the highest approval ratings, even when he Backed out of the race for president, but all his time was a center to heal Senator. He always had a very good approval rating. But yeah,…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: but he had very Voice once again distinctive demeanor. But yeah, he always plays. A military authority figure for sure. I love them in Days of Thunder. That's probably my favorite movie with him in it though that one in Die Hard two of my favorites with him. He's so good. The last thing I'll mention I wasn't sure whether to put this in regular trivia or casting but I figured to put in casting so when Donaldson visited DC to scout locations, he was met at the airport by a long stretch limo.

Timothy Williams: He didn't like writing in limos. We asked the driver if he could set up front with him Donaldson asked him if passengers ever got up to Mischief in the back and the driver oblad obliged with some stories when it came time to shoot the limo scene Donaldson track down the same driver and cast him as a limo driver. So I thought that was really cool that the limo driver and the movie was the limo driver that drove him around when he first went to DC. That was pretty cool Alright anybody else in the cast that you wanted to bring up or?

Manly Movies: Yeah. That is pretty cool.

Timothy Williams: I know there a few other familiar faces, but I was trying to keep it somewhat brief. on this episode

Manly Movies: Said I did whenever. Possner was talking to the limo driver about him watching them while they're in the back of that limos like that.

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Manly Movies: That scene was totally improvised.

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: I've heard that I thought that was pretty cool apparently costume that did that a lot though.

Timothy Williams: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Mm-…

Manly Movies: Just to kind of get a rise out of people and…

Manly Movies: see what they and…

Timothy Williams: yeah. Yeah,…

Manly Movies: then they would just keep it in the so.

Timothy Williams: he's got good instincts. He knows what will work and in certain things so.

Manly Movies: mmm

Timothy Williams: Yeah, Kevin Costner's really smart. it's a story but it's not an 80s movies. So I'll save it for another time. But I heard about him. It was Very iconic. But All right. let's talk about iconic scenes. Is there an iconic scene in this movie?

Manly Movies: I mean the Belmont I think probably the most iconic scene is got to be when they were fighting the senator and Shawn young and it's like tell me who it is and he slaps her and you see in slow motion her falling down. and you're like, holy crap. What's up? How's this gonna go down?

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Manly Movies: But I feel like my favorite scenes got to be what you're talking about going to every room in the Pentagon that was just freaking genius man…

Timothy Williams: He yeah. Yeah.

Manly Movies: watching that entire thing that whole sequence there was just perfect psychological Thriller a tone to it. So I don't know. What about you.

Timothy Williams: it's like for iconic scenes there's a lot of things that pop in my head if somebody said No way out. What's the first thing I would think of and it's like him running because 20% of this movie is him being chased. it's like I feel like I'm watching Tom Cruise movie because he's just running but yeah, but I mean that the death scene is definitely pretty big.

00:45:00

Timothy Williams: But the cool thing about this movie and somebody else mentioned it in something I was reading and I had to agree. this is the type of movie. They don't make anymore where it starts off really slow. you're just kind of getting into the characters. But then once that murder happens like everything speeds up like the pacing gets quicker the intensity intensifies, so it builds to that climax at the end and the big twist, which we'll talk about no spoilers yet, but yeah, the chase scenes and stuff when he takes the car when he's running through the subway system and all that kind of stuff so that I love those scenes and then

Timothy Williams: Yeah, there's no over the top type of action sequence. It's just What this movie does is it doesn't have these Monumental scenes per se quote unquote. But the way the story unravels you're just so sucked into it. you have to watch and see what happens next. it draws you in and keeps you guessing or keeps you on the edge of your seat.

Manly Movies: one

Timothy Williams: My gosh, what's gonna happen? Are they gonna catch them? when they all come down in the computer room said when they're searching he's like you guys doing down here. It's like there's only room we haven't searched yet and then he spills the cup of coffee so we can sit on as I go change and…

Manly Movies: that's so good.

Timothy Williams: then he leaves and then he gets in the vents and then he, pops up and never places. man, it's so good.

Manly Movies: Yeah, and then when those two assassins Corner have any tackles both of them desperation, man

Timothy Williams: .

Timothy Williams: Mm- And it's a subtle thing. I picked up on today when I was watching the end when he's fighting the two guys, he knocks the one guy out with the fire extinguisher and the other guy cuts in which I thought why you carrying a blade but the guys carrying a blade and he cuts his arm and then they're having that big fight him and Richard and rice when he figures out when everything kind of comes ahead and in the Senator's office. And then as he's walking out the other guys like my gosh, you're okay with your arm,…

Manly Movies: mmm

Timothy Williams: and he looks down. It's like adrenaline's been pumping so high he's not even thinking about it, but Yeah, just that and…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: then you see the blood on the white uniform It was very well made movie Very the details were there, I think anyway.

Manly Movies: Yeah, I agree. I mean that when I saw that it was a Political kind of the erotic Thriller type thing.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: I was thinking. Okay. This is gonna be like

Manly Movies: kind of your typical cheesy 80s type of Thriller that Maybe great watching it now. So I was kind of apprehensive but I wanted to watch it…

Timothy Williams: mmm

Manly Movies: but I was like, holy crap man. This movie is really good. it's very very well made the attention to detail the direction the score that's pumping throughout this tire thing like it's just yeah,…

Timothy Williams: Yeah. yeah. yeah.

Manly Movies: everything is just so very very well made

Timothy Williams: Yeah. it has its dated moments, the graphics are very dated, the opening titles look pretty bad and…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: then let's talk about the technology. Of course, we have the photo. that tried the negative that they found in her apartment.

Timothy Williams: And then these are called pixels or however, he says pixels sounded so funny. Yeah, I was like,…

Manly Movies: but it sounds

Timothy Williams: my gosh this shows you how old it is like, yeah, they're these things and…

Manly Movies: mm-hmm

Timothy Williams: we can make them clear and of course that didn't really exist especially back then there's no way they could take that and make it, be a full picture at the end like they did but I remember as a kid thinking that was so cool. my gosh, they can take so then you can't see but at all that's the story because what's gonna take 24 to 48 hours for it to happen. So you're giving that clock that time. It's like this has to be solved and so much time and then, him finding the jewelry box and knowing that the senator had given it to her as a gift. So that's how he was gonna tie him in to being the culprit, Israel smart

Timothy Williams: Like I said, the beginning is kind of that light and fluffy. it's sir, they're romantic and they fall in love and then boom when she's murdered it. All starts to build and build and build so really well done as you said but to the 80, I mean it's one that I don't think people mention a lot when you talk about Kevin Costner he's had so it's more iconic roles Untouchables Bull Durham Field of Dreams. We've all said from the 80s, but this one came out the same year as The Untouchables and I think maybe because they came out so close together. Untouchables kind of overshadowed this one a little bit but it's still really good and it did pretty decent at the box office. It wasn't as big of a hit but it still did pretty well. so All…

00:50:00

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Let's hit some scenes and trivia with me think of some other scenes as well.

Timothy Williams: In the scene where Tom and Susan exit the elevator after they're riding limos since we were talking about limo a few minutes ago. The director said took a few takes to get the scene, at every time the elevator doors opened. Kevin Costner didn't look too happy. Finally director took Sean Young aside and told her do something to put a smile on Kevin's face while they're in the elevator the next take made it to the movie after seeing it. Donald said, I don't know what she did in there, but he sure had a smile on his face when the doors opened. so I'll just

Manly Movies: Only Imagine

Timothy Williams: not sure what it right Which I think she had made the comment to.

Timothy Williams: That she was fine with the nude scenes, but she knew that Kevin Costner was uncomfortable with her being nude. So that might have been that scene he knew…

Manly Movies: yeah.

Timothy Williams: what was coming. It was like I feel a little anxious And of…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: yeah, I was gonna mention this when you mentioned, Susan falling to her death. This was filmed with her standing upright on a dolly being pushed towards a wall that had been made up to look like the floor complete with the glass table. So that's how they did that shot, which I thought was even watching it when she does as far as I've had,…

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: you could tell it's not CGI like but that was a very realistic looking childish. That's smart. You just make a wall that looks like the floor and just move her towards it on the dolly. So Yeah,…

Manly Movies: That's pretty cool.

Timothy Williams: good effect.

Manly Movies: practical effects Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Exactly. I was saying great practices. that's why we love the 80s movies the Practical effects.

Timothy Williams: Kevin Costner did roll over the hood of a moving car during one of the chase sequences according to the film's original Crest material and…

Manly Movies: Mm-hmm

Timothy Williams: insurance executive approached director Donaldson. After the Stuntin said don't you ever do that again? He also drove without wearing his prescription glasses which the film insurance company was not happy about either.

Manly Movies: Apparently he did all of his stunts in this movie or…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, a lot of them. The one I could tell was a stuntman was during the chase scene…

Manly Movies: at least a lot of them. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: where he jumps over the fence and climbs on the tree. I think that scene you could tell it was a stunt double like it. The hair wasn't right. the guys here was four inches longer than Kevin Costner's here. And he kept turning his head away from the camera.

Manly Movies: that's

Timothy Williams: It's like, but If that's the stuff we loved we love to catch.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Another thing about dating the movie…

Manly Movies: mmm

Timothy Williams: which that was interesting was when Sam tells Tom that obtaining the credit card records could take a few days in 1987 most credit card at transactions were performed on paper. The embossed details on the credit card were transferred to a carbon paper receipt which were then submitted to the vendors bank for tabulation either manually or using basic OCR scanners. The processing of these charges could take up to a week.

Timothy Williams: So this is the pre digital Aid. are you old enough to remember the sliding credit machines

Manly Movies: I just remember I'm from Home Alone 2. He was at the Plaza Hotel. He's like wow, it worked.

Timothy Williams: That's yeah. Yeah. I remember I was working retail.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: we would take credit cards and those pieces of paper they would impress the numbers of the card on the carbon and that's what you turned in for it to be, processed or whatever. So Yeah.

Manly Movies: I was probably too young to ever even notice how my parents were paying for things.

Timothy Williams: All…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: It's so funny now, we have a debit card. it's so interesting. but also you let's think things go back and watch a movie like Catch Me If You Can with Tom Hanks and Captain DiCaprio how they manipulated the check system even back then interesting interesting

Manly Movies: Yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Williams: So the ending of the film was apparently controversial at the time as audiences are on the side of kostner's character throughout only to be stung by the final Revelation spoiler alert. He was the Russian they were looking for he was but Donaldson said he was very happy that people kept the secret and wondered if that aided the word of mouth and the film success which if that movie was made today. the twist ending everybody would probably know by the second week. So probably why people not really talking about it. Helped it. Stay in the theaters a little bit longer.

00:55:00

Timothy Williams: But yeah but I remember as a kid watching that I'm like wait, So he was Russian like man.

Manly Movies: Uh-huh.

Timothy Williams: So I think that's one of the first movies. I'm pretty sure that was the first movie that I saw that had what you would call a twist ending quote unquote, Which was really good because it adds a little later the story not only is he trying to prove the senator did it and approve this? He's innocent, but he's also trying to make sure they don't know that he's a Russian spy either. so

Manly Movies: Actually one thing that makes this movie so unique to me.

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: I was watching some of the scenes. On YouTube. I think it has 12 different scenes and I watched one of them and just not the final scene, but after the death when the senator goes to Will Patton. I guess this is his chief of staff.

Timothy Williams: I assume yeah.

Manly Movies: I assume. And he's fully prepared to turn himself in for this.

Timothy Williams: Right, right. Mm-hmm.

Manly Movies: Like I did it. I'm going to the police. I just want to let you know first, but it's the chief of staff who convinces him to bury it.

Timothy Williams: Yep.

Manly Movies: and so that's why I feel like it's so unique is because there are a lot of movies that show the corruption of Washington and…

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: and how Dirty, the politicians are but one could argue that most politicians are just kind of caught up in the pressure and demands of the job and they just become yes men to all the guys that are behind the scenes. The bureaucrats the lobbyists the staff members all the ones here sucking on the power heat.

Timothy Williams: right

Timothy Williams: right

Manly Movies: Those people are Where the real corruption lies and…

Timothy Williams: 

Manly Movies: very few movies show that side of it.

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Manly Movies: So I thought that was a really cool touch on this film to see that it wasn't the senator that wanted to bury this so

Timothy Williams: Mm- Yeah. Yeah. That's true because even rewatching it I think at one point I was like, what? I don't think I remembered. the senator being as unquote not uncooperative, but he's like this isn't gonna work. I just need to confess. He's like no. No you realize that the senator really Gene Hagman really did not play the bad guy was he a good guy? not necessarily but he was not the real enemy. The enemy was Pritchard because he was the one that was like no we're gonna cover it up. we're gonna kill two birds with one stone.

Timothy Williams: the thing that does kind of bother me about the ending I don't like the ending bothered me some because you find that he's the Russian agent, he's telling whoever his Handler is whatever because like you told me to have a relationship with the woman. So obviously that she was the target for him which was like was he to get close to her to get close to the senator we don't know what that end goal was and then he's like, I'm leaving because once the picture was developed and they knew wait even though Richard killed himself and you think he's the Russian mole we've still got this picture of the lieutenant

Timothy Williams: So it still leaves this big question in Washington, then what happens after that point? And so I thought it was interesting that they let him go and the Russian gases. No, let him go. He'll be back where else can he go and it's like, okay, we're setting up for a sequel what's part two gonna be about does he come back and…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: they put him somewhere else in our different Identity or whatever. I'll know just neck with that way, but that I think the ending even though was with the tweeting the twist. The very in where he just walks out to the car. It's It's kind of a cheap ending you just don't answer all the questions like okay,…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: we ran out of money. There you go. we're gonna stop moving right here, so

Manly Movies: That just means it was ahead of its time because that's…

Timothy Williams: yeah. Yeah.

Manly Movies: how happy endings are now and most movies. It's like they leave you with something that doesn't sum up anything at all.

Timothy Williams: Right, right. Yeah,…

Manly Movies: And I'm like, what did I just watch

Timothy Williams: I don't want to see four more versions of this. I was good with just one. Yeah.

Manly Movies: exactly.

01:00:00

Timothy Williams: All right, let's talk about box office in critical reception and wrap this one up. So no way outbur was released in American theaters on August 14th 1987. It debuted at number two at the US box office behind Stakeout with 4.3 million dollars. I'm gonna have to cover stake out here recently pretty soon because it keeps coming up as one that beat out all these other movies. I've seen stick out before I remember watching it.

Manly Movies: 

Timothy Williams: I think of watch the TV version as a kid. So it's what I want to go back a lot Richard Dreyfuss and Millie west of this. I remember liking it but I haven't seen in a long time but it's not streaming anywhere. So I think I have it on my watch this when it's available for streaming to catch it.

Manly Movies: I have not seen that one.

Timothy Williams: Yeah. It's kind of Mystery type of movie it's cool. All right. So Rotten Tomatoes give us no way out a 92% on the Tomato Meter and a 72% audience score IMDb has its 1 out of 10 with viewers and a 77 on Metacritic. so I obviously loved by the critics for Rotten Tomatoes 92 is pretty high 72 audience were not bad because I'm sure most of those are people that didn't see it in 87 there people that have watched it more recently because it is somewhat dated. They may not understand some parts of the story. But where does it fall for you? Where do you rank?

Manly Movies: he

Timothy Williams: No Way Out

Manly Movies: I gave it a four out of five. It's one that I could probably rewatch a few times and…

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: and could probably get higher my initial reaction though. I guess that would make it. What a 80% or so

Timothy Williams: 80s or 90s yet? It's been I mean Yeah,…

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: it's kind of weirdest for me like it. It's one that I've seen many times. But it's still fun to watch even if you know how it ends. It's still Keeps you engaged in the story even if that's one of the great movies are like that. Even if you know how it's gonna end. you want to enjoy the ride again knowing how it's gonna end. So it definitely has I think you talk that up to Kevin Costner. his performance Gene Hackman Sean Young

Timothy Williams: Will Patton is blanked all of a sudden.

Manly Movies: and wool pattern

Timothy Williams: Yeah, just the actors and the directions is done really well. So I think that's what makes it rewatchable. because it's rewatched. that's kind of how I rank my stuff. So definitely would be in that. I say upper 80s maybe like 80 86 87 County. You'll be four out of five stars if I was doing the stars as well, so That makes sense to me.

Manly Movies: Yeah. That will pattern man that his performance in that is just I told you that I'm never going to see him the same way again…

Timothy Williams: right Mm-hmm.

Manly Movies: because he's so freaking creepy in this movie.

Timothy Williams: and he get in it and it builds, because when you first meet him, he doesn't seem that way at…

Manly Movies: yeah.

Timothy Williams: but the deeper it gets into it the more unhinged he becomes which once again it's such shows good acting and good directing that they let that kind of Slowly develop it wasn't like. you like first meeting. he's crazy. he's gonna be the bad guy like you didn't know that coming in when you meet him at the dinner. It's like they said they're cool guys and they know each other and he makes a lot about I would do anything for that man. I'd lay down my life for him. It's like, okay, that's A little extreme but it's not so in your face. You didn't say it of certain look that made you think I'm crazy. It's just a little thing that's planted there to kind of, foreshadow. What's to come? Yeah.

Manly Movies: Yeah, there's that you can kind of see how they're starting to spin this web and it's the very subtle things like he's a genius like most people don't say that about their boss first of all,…

Timothy Williams: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Manly Movies: and then secondly when he says I would lay down that life for my life for that man.

Timothy Williams: mmm

Manly Movies: I'm like, okay. There's something going on here.

Timothy Williams: Right, right.

Manly Movies: But yeah, you kind of brush it off. Yeah. It's weird.

Timothy Williams: People get excited, he's excitable. I don't know.

Manly Movies: Yeah.

Timothy Williams: Hi with thanks so much for being a part of this episode. You also have a podcast called man up, of course our listeners know about it, but you got anything in the works coming up. I know you kind of taken a little bit of a Hiatus here recently. But anything you want to let people know about or any past episodes. They can go and check out until you get something new out.

Manly Movies: As far as past episodes, you can definitely check out. What I've talked about a couple of them I've done Remember the Titans.

01:05:00

Timothy Williams: Unforgiven

Manly Movies: I think I did The Expendables one through three that's my most recent episode that I dropped and…

Timothy Williams: mmm

Manly Movies: I dropped it right before I spendables 4 came out…

Timothy Williams: working out right I haven't watched it either.

Manly Movies: which I've heard was terrible and I still haven't watched it.

Timothy Williams: No, yeah.

Manly Movies: I'm afraid to but most recent ones. I did Alpha Dog,…

Timothy Williams: Mm- Yeah,…

Manly Movies: which is the kind of a low-key movie a…

Timothy Williams: I've seen that.

Manly Movies: Not a lot of people have seen.

Manly Movies: Did Independence Day last year?

Timothy Williams: Mm-hmm

Manly Movies: And I did a Father's Day special which dude check that out because I did top 10 movie dads and…

Timothy Williams: cool.

Manly Movies: TV dads me and me and another critic did that so I've got a lot, from comic book movies to westerns that Tim and I did Tombstone and that's kind of one of my first episodes which is a great one as far as coming up. I still have a couple that I haven't released yet. I did Friday Night Lights recently actually.

Timothy Williams: yeah, yeah.

Manly Movies: Sure, I did that right before football season. I just haven't released yet because I got really busy.

Timothy Williams: right

Manly Movies: And then I've got one on Walking Tall that has not been released.

Timothy Williams: Is that the original or the remake. Yeah.

Manly Movies: The one Dwayne Johnson had the Remake and then also. I can't remember. I've got one on Christopher Nolan's The Prestige.

Timothy Williams: So that's a good one.

Manly Movies: That will be released someday soon. But yeah, I'm hoping to get that started back up soon and get that going because it's been a long time coming and I'm finally to the point where I can start doing it..

Timothy Williams: I'm glad you take some of your schedule to join in with me on this one always a good time to have you on the podcast. So a new feature we have this year. I'm doing an 80s flick flashback feedback. So I'm gonna share one of the reviews we've gotten on Apple podcast. So the math actor gave us five stars and said it was entertaining and informative his review says as a child of the 80s, this is a terrific podcast for relief for that. This is a terrific podcast for reliving these movie classics, Tim and his guests always provide terrific Insight while having a light-hearted discussion Tim does terrific terrific research to provide background information and trivia about the film and nostalgic trip through 80s Cinema. So appreciate your math factor for that awesome review if you want to leave a review as well. We'd really appreciate it by doing that over on Apple podcast and be sure to

Timothy Williams: follow And subscribe where you listen to podcasts so Do you have a burning question for us or just want to share your own epic 80s movie experience. You send us an email that info is flick flashback.com. If you're enjoying our show, please share the love spread the word by sharing this episode with your fellow fans of 80s flicks. You can also connect with us on social media find us on Facebook Instagram or tiktok for more nostalgic fun. Where can they find you if they want to reach out to you and the man up Podcast

Manly Movies: Yeah, it's searched manly movies on your favorite podcast catcher. I'm on all of them and then if you want to hit me up on Twitter, I'm at manly movies one. I also on Facebook it mainly movies and Instagram as well. I don't get on there as much so if you want to hit me up try me on Twitter for the most part.

Timothy Williams: And I just realized I think I've been calling your man up Podcast instead of manly movies, and I knew that I don't know why I was doing that. Yeah, yeah,…

Manly Movies: It's maybe that's my catch phrase.

Timothy Williams: that's yeah,…

Manly Movies: I mean, that's what I say at the very end of every episode. So

Timothy Williams: that's what I remember from the ad that you remember to man up. So that's why it sticks in my head.

Manly Movies: It's my buddy.

Timothy Williams: My goodness.

Manly Movies: Did that recorded that for…

Timothy Williams: Yeah, yeah that answer the question…

Manly Movies: It's those.

Timothy Williams: because I was like did JB do that in his voice you get somebody else to do it. So that's cool.

Manly Movies: It's the front. It's funny. I asked him to do it and it's just because I did a podcast with him a sports podcast with him and…

Timothy Williams: Mm- Gravity voice, right?

Manly Movies: he's got a really deep kind of gravelly voice. So I was like, hey man, you want to record this for me. He said yeah, I'm actually internal getting into radio right now. So this could be something that I could keep for my auditions or…

Timothy Williams: yeah. yeah.

Manly Movies: whatever for my portfolio. I was cool. So yeah. Yeah, it was cool.

Timothy Williams: very cool All…

Manly Movies: a good times

Timothy Williams: thanks thank everybody for listening. This is Tim Williams for the 80s flick flashback podcast. night. Good people.